Morning, Dad. Um…
I have that bad stomach thing again.
- Could I have the day off school, please? - Fuck's sake.
Oh my God.
God.
What's up with you?
I don't think apples are good for my stomach acid or something.
Why do you eat them, then?
Well, it's Tracy's idea. Instead of cigs. I'm getting through like six a day.
Ew, the full bushel.
- What's a bushel? - It's like the… It's a…
- It's kind of what you carry them in— - Stop. Forget it.
Okay. Don't ask me, then.
Um…
- Do you wanna hear this? - Go on.
Morning, Dad. Um…
I have that bad stomach thing again.
- This guy. - What time is it? 6:00 a.m., that.
Commitment. Don't wanna go, does he?
Yeah, he knows Tracy will say no, and I'm the soft touch.
- What are you gonna reply? - Well, she'll sort it. He'll go.
"Know thyself."
Mm-hmm.
- Disgusting. Fucking disgusting. Vile. - I'm so sorry.
- Ugh, I can really smell that. - Sorry.
Bravo Delta 4-0 to Bravo Delta 5-0, are you receiving?
Yeah. Go ahead, Jo.
Yeah. Confirming 10-51. Ready to go. Over.
Bravo Delta 5-0 to Bravo Delta 6-0. Are you ready to roll out?
- Yep. Ready. - Received?
- Let's go, Jo. Let's go. - Yep.
Yeah.
Go, go.
- Police! On the floor! - What's going on?
- Hands where I can see them! - Eddie! I've got two kids upstairs.
Against the wall!
I haven't done anything.
You've got the wrong house, I'm telling ya.
You're making a mistake. Where you going?
What's going on? Why have you got guns?
Police! Suspect found! Show me your hands! Hands in the air!
- Get your hands in the fucking air! - Calm down, Mr. Miller.
- Dad! - Down on your knees!
- Dad! - My name is D.I. Bascombe.
I have a warrant to search your premises. Where's your son?
- Where's your son? - He's in his bedroom!
- What do you need me boy for? - Where is he?
- Mum! - He's only a kid, mate!
- You've got the wrong house! - Okay. Jamie Miller.
The time is 6:15 a.m.,
and I'm arresting you on suspicion of murder.
- You do not have to say— - Hey! He hasn't done anything!
- Mr. Miller! - You're making a mistake!
I will arrest you for obstruction. Please stop. Please.
I'm arresting you on suspicion of murder.
You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defense if you…
Dad, I haven't done anything!
…mention something you rely on.
Anything you say may be given in evidence.
- Dad! - You understand?
- Do you understand? - Dad!
- Tell him you understand, Jay! - Do you understand?
- All right, I understand. - Okay, good.
- What are they doing? - Get up slowly.
Have you got anything in your pockets that may harm me or you?
- No. - Okay.
Do you want to change your trousers?
Oh.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- Want me to get your dad? - Yes, please.
Don't move.
- Stand down, please. Stand down. - Stand down.
Mr. Miller, come. He's had an accident.
- Hey? - You need to help him, please.
- You're okay, love. Jay? - Coming through.
My kids are gonna be scared. I need to see me kids and me husband.
- The parents' room? - Yeah.
How are we doing, Mr. Miller? You need to be quick, please. Thank you.
How are we doing? Are we good? Let's go. Let's go.
Don't need your trainers. I've got slippers.
- We'll get you in the van. - Can I come with ya?
You're gonna have to wait until we leave. You can follow after.
Go get your mum. You're okay. Go get your mum.
- Excuse me, love. What are you doing? - I'm searching for evidence.
What? That's our dirty washing.
There's nothing in there, love! Nothing in there, I'm telling ya!
Oi!
- He's not going on his own! - What are youse doing?
What are you… You're wrecking me house!
What are you looking for? Just let me know what you're looking for!
Heya! For fuck's sake.
- Eddie! - Please. What's going on?
- Stop it. - Listen. I'm explaining to your wife.
Your son, he's been arrested on suspicion of murder.
- He couldn't! - We've taken him to the station.
You can follow. On Heywood Street.
- Know where that is? - I do. Round the corner.
You might be entitled to compensation for mess we've caused you.
- Fill this in. - You've bashed the bleeding door in.
- Fill it in. - Why do you need guns for a 13-year-old?
- He's 13! - Understand what I've said?
Of course. Do you understand? There's no way he's done this.
- We'll see you there. - He's had guns in his face and everything!
- I hope youse are happy with yourselves. - Dad!
- He's a kid! He's my son! - No!
- It's all right. Don't worry, son. - Dad!
Jay! Jay! Jay, me and your mum are gonna follow, okay?
Jay, don't say nothing. Okay?
Jay!
- Let's go. - You'll be okay, son. Yeah?
- Fucking ridiculous! - Come on.
Dad!
- Thirteen years of age! - Dad!
This is Bravo Delta 5-0.
Yeah. Go ahead, Bravo Delta 5-0.
Yeah, 10-95. All okay and cooperative, okay?
Understood.
I want my dad.
Jamie.
Jamie, I know it's hard, but you need to calm down, okay?
- Just calm yourself down, mate. - I want Dad here.
I haven't done anything. I haven't—
- Hey. - I've not done nothing.
We'll get into that when we get to the station, okay?
This is not the place to be speaking about anything like that, all right?
Save all of this for when we get there. Don't say another word.
I'm gonna suggest something. When asked, you ask for a solicitor, okay?
And you can speak to your parents about it when you get to the station.
- Mm-hmm. - It won't make you seem more guilty.
It's just for your best interests, all right?
Jamie, this is Derek.
Derek will be your appropriate adult for the purpose of this arrest, all right?
Hi, Jamie.
I'm from Doncaster Social Services, all right?
The custody sergeant is gonna ask you
whether you want to keep Derek on, or whether you want someone else.
You can even have one of your parents.
It'll just be for your searches, bloods,
any time you're talking to your solicitor, that sort of thing, okay?
It won't prejudice your case, whatever you decide, mate. All right?
I…
Okay, Jamie.
- I don't even know— - Hey. That's enough.
- That's enough. - Just wait.
It's for your own benefit. Okay?
Let's go.
Custody desk.
- Yeah, D.I. Bascombe. One in custody. - Okay.
Inside, please.
Okay. Just stand there.
- Ah, thank you. - You all right?
Just over there on that stop mark, Jamie. Let's go, please.
Sarge, this is Jamie Miller.
He's 13 years old. He's been arrested on suspicion of murder.
Okay, Jamie. Can I have your full name, please, son?
- I didn't do it. - That's not to do with me.
Just try and answer my questions, please, son.
It's Jamie Edward Miller.
And have you had your rights explained to you, Jamie?
What?
Did the officer explain that you don't need to speak,
but anything you do say may be given in evidence? Yeah?
- Yeah. - Okay.
And will you be wanting a solicitor?
- Yeah. - Okay.
And do you have a solicitor, or do you want the station to provide one?
I don't know. I don't think so. Can you ask my dad, please?
Yeah. So because you're a juvenile,
you need to be supported by an appropriate adult.
Now, would you like that to be one of your parents?
- Or would you like that to be Derek? - I'd like my dad, please.
You sure? You can have a think.
I want my dad, please.
Okay. Next business, son. Are you fit and well?
What?
Are you currently taking any medication for anything, Jamie?
No.
Okay. And have you got any long-term medical conditions,
such as asthma or any kind of serious allergies?
No.
Okay. And have you ever tried to take your own life or self-harmed?
No.
- Have you had your breakfast, son? - No.
Okay. I am, at 6:31, authorizing your detention
so that the officers can preserve evidence by questioning you
about the offense you are suspected of.
You can be held at this police station for 24 hours.
Your detention here will be reviewed
by an independent inspector on a regular basis,
so that you, your solicitor, or your appropriate adult
can make representations about your detention at that review.
Have you understood all that, son?
- Yeah. - Okay. Good lad.
Right, let's get you to a cell.
It'll just be you in there. Then we can fetch you some breakfast.
I think we've got some cornflakes. Is that okay, Jamie?
You okay? We're here now.
- We're here. - We're here.
Can… Can I go to them?
Jamie, we need to process you here, okay?
The sooner we do this, the sooner we can bring your dad in.
All right, lad? Are cornflakes all right for you, Jamie?
Just pay attention, Jamie. You're doing well, son.
This bit's nearly over now. You're doing really well.
Cornflakes are okay?
- Yeah. - Okay.
Once you've had your breakfast, Jamie, a nurse will be brought in,
then if she thinks you're okay,
you'll be taken to have some photos and samples taken, okay?
Then your lawyer'll be brought to you. All right, son?
- Yeah. - Okay. Good lad.
Right, P.C. Grogan. It's cell number six, please.
Right. Okay, if you want to just follow me.
Hey!
You'd better open this fucking door!
Denzel! Fucking… It's you or me!
You fucking with me?
Okay, then, Jamie.
This is what we call a dry cell.
If you need the toilet, you're gonna have to ask. All right?
Okay.
Fucking course you are!
Stop looking at me! Shut up! Let's have ya!
All right?
Takes a while to review things before we can do anything.
Yeah, but you only have about four hours…
Thing is, imagine if—
- I know, love. - Mr. and Mrs. Miller, how's it going?
Brilliant, yeah.
Look, I understand this must be a hard time for you.
I've got a few questions I need to ask if that's okay.
Um, well, Jamie has asked for a solicitor. Is there a family one that you guys have?
- No. Not at all, no. - No.
Okay, well, we can provide one.
Um, we have a duty solicitor here that we can call.
- What, is that one of yours, is it, yeah? - They don't work for us.
It's their duty to protect your son's best interests, but…
It's a service that we have here free of charge if asked for.
Yeah, but free normally means no good, though, don't it?
Mr. Miller, look, I completely understand your concerns,
but in my experience, they're very competent solicitors,
so… it's up to you.
- Okay. - Yeah.
- Okay. - Thank you.
- You all right, Mrs. Miller? - No.
How can you behave like that and come here and behave like this?
How does that work, eh?
Your men threw me on the floor, threw my daughter on the floor.
- I'm okay. - I hope they didn't do that.
I hope they told you to get on the floor for your safety and for theirs.
And if they didn't,
you are well within your rights to make a complaint, okay?
- Would you like me to get someone? - That is what they did, Mum.
- Okay. - Okay.
All right?
Last thing, um… we do have someone suitable
if you're unable to do it, but Jamie has asked
whether you'll be his, um, appropriate adult.
What's that?
You'll be in his interviews with him, any bloods taken by the nurse.
That sort of stuff.
- How do you feel about that? - Okay, yeah. Yeah, all right.
Why did he pick you?
- He's not good with needles. He won't— - Okay. He'll be fine.
- It's all right. - He'll be fine.
Mr. Miller, I have to say this.
If your son has admitted to you anything regarding this case
or any of the events leading up to this case, you can't do this job.
- He hasn't said anything. - It could jeopardize his case, okay?
And I told you, you've got it wrong, mate. He hasn't done anything.
He's said nothing to us. He's done nothing.
Okay.
All right, look, um, there's a coffee machine there.
Nurse is gonna be a while, all right?
Someone will come through and see you soon.
It's drinkable. Help yourself.
- I'll see you soon. - Thank you.
- Do you want a coffee, love? - No, thanks.
Well, don't be letting everyone know what's happening.
We haven't even got a clue ourselves yet, love.
I'm texting Susie to make sure our house is okay.
We haven't got a door anymore, if you remember.
Yeah, look, maybe… maybe you should go home, eh?
Yeah, you should.
Well, what would I do there? I'm not… I'm not going. I'm not. I'm not…
Well, tell her not to clean anything up, okay?
Tell her to take loads of photos so we can fill that form thing in.
Okay, good idea.
Mum, what's gonna happen?
It's all right, love. It's just a mistake.
You see it on the telly all the time. It's just a mistake.
She said they were charging him with murder.
- Well, he hasn't done anything. - Of course he hasn't.
- He can't have. Of course he hasn't. - They've made a mistake.
Of course they have. Yeah. Yeah. We know he has.
Ah, excuse me, love. Excuse me. You were at our house, weren't you?
- Yeah. - Can you tell me when we can see me son?
Not long, Mr. Miller, all right?
- Morning, Sarge. - All right?
- Yeah, you? - Yeah.
- Morning, Carol. - Morning.
- You all right. - Yeah. All right?
Hi, guys.
- Morning, everyone. - Morning.
Ooh, fucking hell, how much do you want a cigarette right now?
- Don't start me off, mate. - Fuck.
Have you had anything from upstairs yet?
Ah, just comms, wanting to know what to release and when.
- Nothing from the DCI. - Mm-hmm.
You worried about the dad?
- The dad? - Mm.
No, I'm not worried about the dad. Why? What are you saying?
I don't know.
I had this old case once, right?
Young boy.
Put it this way.
It took us months before we realized what the dad was doing to him, so…
- I don't see it. I don't. - No, you're right.
You're right.
God.
Forensics. What are we saying? What have we got?
Do you think they'll have an answer already?
They should have been through a chunk of the house. Shoes? Possible weapon?
I'll check in with them.
What about Bruntwood? They sent over the files?
I don't think anyone's been in the school yet. It's early, innit?
- Can we get into his phone? - Nope, it's locked.
- Can we ask him for a code? - Not till after assessment.
- And she's late. Yeah. - She is, yeah.
- You wanna go through the plan again? - I mean, we could.
- But honestly, I think we're good, mate. - All right. I get it.
- Go and have a nap. - I'm going to have a walk. See you later.
- Sir, I'm just going through the PER form. - Okay.
Post charges, he's underage, so the council are gonna have to decide
which accommodation they can move him to.
Oh, hello. Nice of you to join us.
Are you fucking joking me? Do you know what time it is? Knob.
- Evan, I don't know what you're asking me. - I'm asking for a risk assessment.
He's been accused of murdering someone with a kitchen knife.
So where are we gonna put him?
Cross that bridge when we come to it, won't we? Yeah?
- Yeah, okay. Yeah, sound. - Okay, cool.
Oh God.
Yeah. Good time or bad time?
Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry, I know it's early.
Shower, yeah? Okay.
Anyway, did Adam go in?
I mean, is he going in?
Mm. Keeps on texting me.
And I told Misha he only texts me 'cause he knows I'm the soft touch.
Yeah, she sure did.
Anyway, I just… just thought I'd call and say hi.
Yeah, I'm all right.
Listen, I'd better go, all right?
You too. I'll see you later. Bye.
- Sir. - Good, good.
Yeah.
Allergic to penicillin…
- Sorry. - That's all right. Thank you.
Sorry. Cheers.
Okay, Jamie, just a few more questions, then, if that's okay.
Can you explain to me what being under arrest means?
It means being here.
Can you have another go at that?
Answer the question, lad.
It means the police think I've done something.
They'll have me locked up until they know whether I have.
That's a good answer.
And can you explain why you might need a lawyer?
So… so I don't get trapped saying the wrong thing.
Also a good answer.
Okay, Jamie, well, I think you're a bright boy.
I don't see a vulnerability the police need to be aware of.
Have you got any questions for me?
Um…
No, I… I don't think so.
Is that a bad thing?
No, you're fine. I'll give you a minute.
- Ta. - Okay.
Eat your cornies, son.
I don't want 'em.
Come on, eat the cornflakes. You need to eat something.
I haven't… I haven't done anything. I just…
I just wanna… I just wanna go home. I've not done anything.
Do you believe me that I've… that I've not done anything?
Of course I believe you.
You're my son, aren't ya?
Hey?
Sorry, Mr. Miller.
I'm gonna have to ask you to leave if that's okay.
Sorry.
- Eat your cornflakes. - Yeah.
Eat your cornies, son. You need to keep your strength up, yeah?
Mr. Miller, I'll take you back to the family room.
Dad!
How long are we gonna be here, mate?
I can't answer any questions now, unfortunately.
Any idea?
Mate…
He's a bright boy, you know.
Right. No current medication. No relevant medical history.
- I hate juvenile cases, me. - No one likes 'em.
Morning, Sergeant.
- Morning. - Jamie Miller.
Ah, right, okay.
Parents are in the family room, and the lad's in the cell,
so I'm guessing parents first, yeah?
- Yes. - Know where you're going?
- Yes, I do. - Okay.
- Morning. Mind buzzing me through? - Yeah, of course.
- There you are. - Thank you.
- I see you on the phone. - Sorry to disturb. Mr. and Mrs. Miller?
Um, my name's Paul Barlow. I'm from Storey and French.
- I've been allocated Jamie's case. - All right.
- Um… - Can you tell us what's going on?
Yeah, do you wanna take a seat, and we'll run through a few things.
Um…
So, the way this works is, um,
I'll be briefed by the arresting officers as to the particulars of the case,
and I'll also catch up with what's been going on
since Jamie's arrest, okay?
Do you have any complaints as to your treatment so far?
Yeah. They tore the house apart.
They had guns and everything. They smashed the door in.
- Okay. - Wrecked the house.
When a violent death's taken place, that's the name of the game.
The question is, whether or not that was proportionate.
We'll look at that later.
Okay, but more importantly, how's Jamie doing?
He's… he asked me to be his thing. What was it called?
Appropriate adult.
- Appropriate adult. - Yeah, it's good.
It's generally better he has a parent in there with him.
You can keep him calm while we work this out.
He's, uh…
I've just seen him.
To be honest with you, he's not looking too good.
Right. I don't blame him. Neither would I.
Um, to be honest, there's not much I can say right now
that will make this situation any better.
Um, I can see the shock that's happened here,
and it's totally understandable.
But we'll do our best here for you, okay?
I'm gonna get myself briefed, if you can hang tight for me.
Someone will be along with you shortly, okay? Okay.
- Thank you. - No.
Cheers, mate.
- Of course. - Thank you.
It's all right.
- Sorry. - It's all right. All right.
Thanks again.
- Am I… - Should be all the way down.
- Is it the usual room? Yeah. - Yes.
- After you. - Thanking you.
Good morning.
- Good morning. - Paul.
- For you. - Thank you.
Okay. So, what have we got?
Incident took place at 10:13 p.m. last night.
Arrest… approximately 25 minutes ago.
Well, that's my personal record broken, then.
- Heard you made a mess of the house. - Yeah, sorry about that.
Okay. Murder. So I'm assuming you're going after possession and threatening as well?
Yep.
- Can I know anything about the victim? - You will do.
Okay.
Is it a media blackout, is it? Because I couldn't see anything—
We're still looking for the relatives, their dad.
Okay. Okay.
- Has he been told his right to silence? - Yes.
- Is he clear on what that means? - Yes.
- Has he been fed? - He's had the opportunity to eat.
- Assessed? - Yep, she passed him fit.
- Searched? - Waited for you.
- Good to hear. I see you're taking blood. - Yeah, scratches on his arm.
Blood at the scene. It's not without justification.
- Wasn't questioning that. - Okay.
And what investigation has taken place otherwise?
- Nothing with the suspect. - Anything else I need to know?
Nothing that we're gonna tell you now.
- Where was the victim pronounced? - At the scene.
Multiple wounds. It's in there.
And his father's his appropriate adult?
Correct.
- Is he okay? - Think so.
- And how's Jamie around him? - Don't know.
Fine.
- Ready for samples. - Sarge.
- Is that all I'm getting? - Yep. That's all you're gonna get.
Okay. Samples first, but then a chat.
- I wanna have a look at this kid first. - Paul, don't be so excited.
- I'm not excited. - Makes you look like a prick.
- Uh, D.I. Bascombe, one last thing. - What?
- I just need two minutes. - Go on.
Sir, we've got a teacher here from Bruntwood Academy.
- I'll be up. - I'll be so quick.
- Well, follow me. - All right.
Can I have Mr. Miller, please?
Hi, sir. We need you in the medical suite.
Just while your son has some samples taken, please.
Right. Um, I'll… I'll be as quick as I can.
Okay. Watch him with the needles, Eddie.
- Please. - Just follow me, sir.
Just wait in here, please, Mr. Miller. Your son will be with you shortly.
- I'll leave you to it. - Yeah.
- It's warm, innit? - Really warm.
- Want me to hang your jacket? - You're all right. Thank you.
P.C. Grogan'll be in here, and your dad as well. Okay?
Hello, Jamie.
So, what's gonna happen now, we're gonna take some photos,
then we're gonna take some samples, then we're gonna search you, okay?
- Okay. Okay. - Okay.
Let's get you over on this chair here,
facing that camera on the wall just to take some photos.
So there'll be a bit of a flash, all right?
Lovely. And to the side.
And the other side.
Lovely. And that's done.
Jamie, very quickly. My name's, uh, Paul Barlow.
I'm from a solicitor firm called Storey and French.
- I'll be advising you today, okay? - Okay.
Um, we'll talk, but I didn't want you wondering
who this strange man was, all right?
Jamie, can I just get you to stand here for me?
I'm just gonna do a quick mouth swab, if that's okay.
- Yeah. - Sorry. Let me close the door.
Just open wide for me.
And the other side.
Okay, my love.
All right. Let's get you over here, shall we, for some fingerprints.
So just get you to get your right thumb.
Press on there. There'll be a red light that'll come on.
Thank you. And your index finger.
Lovely. And your middle finger.
Lovely. And your ring finger.
That's right. It's that one there, yeah.
Thank you. And your little finger.
Thank you. Okay. And let's do your other hand. So left thumb.
That's it. Thank you.
Index finger.
Yep.
And your middle finger.
Thank you. And your ring finger.
There we are. Thank you.
And then your little finger. Last one, though.
Lovely. Thank you.
Okay, then.
So now, Jamie, we need your passcode
just so we can access your phone, if that's okay?
Uh, there's no need to give them that, Jamie.
No.
Okay. Erica.
Yeah, Jamie, do you want to just hop on the bed for me?
I'm just gonna take some bloods, if that's okay.
- I… I don't really like needles. - He's no good with needles, love.
Jamie, I've got to warn you, it may harm your defense if you refuse.
Yeah, he's right.
Do you consent to your son giving a specimen, Mr. Miller?
Are you gonna be okay?
I don't know.
You'll be fine. It won't take long. I promise. Be as quick as possible.
- Okay. - Yeah?
Yeah, just look at me, lad, yeah?
- Look at your dad. Pop yourself here. - Yeah, just keep looking at me.
- Gonna put this around your arm. - All right.
You're just gonna feel a bit of a squeeze.
Is it… Is it gonna…
Keep looking at your dad. Nice and still for me.
You're just gonna feel a sharp scratch, okay?
- Look at me. - Keep looking at your dad.
Come on. It's all right.
- Nearly there. - It's all right.
Nearly there. Keep looking at your dad.
Oh, is it done? Ow.
- Yeah. - There you go.
- There we are. - Good lad. See?
- Brilliant. - Okay.
Keep your finger on that for me just for a couple of minutes.
- Sound. - Well done.
Well done. There you go. Sorted.
Okay, then.
I'm gonna have to ask you to take your clothes off.
- What, all of 'em? - I need to conduct a strip search.
- Is that necessary? - Afraid so.
I'm not too sure about this, mate.
There is a chance that he may have concealed things on or around his body.
Look, he… he wet himself earlier on,
so he's changed his undies and his pants and—
I understand, Mr. Miller.
- No, he changed his jeans and everything. - Mr. Miller, I understand.
But this is a serious offense.
Okay, I've got scratch marks on his left arm.
We need to make sure there's no other cuts or bruises we need to be aware of.
I think this is a bit serious as well, don't you?
How would you have felt if you were 13 and had two men looking at your bits?
- I wasn't accused of a crime. - That's it, mate. Accused.
He hasn't been found guilty. He's been accused.
- Can you not do anything about this? - I'm sorry.
They're entitled to under PACE.
Mr. Miller, I promise I will be very careful.
I don't know you from Adam, mate.
- We need to cooperate with this. - You know? That's my boy, and he's 13.
- Like I said, he's 13. - Mr. Miller.
- Passcodes, we can tell them no… - It's procedure, Mr. Miller.
- He's 13. - This is for Jamie's defense.
Dad, it's fine.
- You okay? - I don't mind.
So, Jamie, I'll just get you to pop your clothes off for me.
So I need to observe,
and then P.C. Grogan's just going to observe me, all right?
Do you want to pop your clothes on the side there, yeah?
Do you want to turn to face me? All right?
And just lift your arms up for me.
There we are.
You can turn to the side.
Mm. And then face the wall behind you.
Okay.
You can pop your arms down now.
You can turn back to face me one more time.
Okay, and if I can just ask you to lift up your penis.
I need to make sure that there's no defensive wounds on your scrotum.
No. Okay.
All right, then. And that's done.
So gonna ask you to pop these clothes on for me.
And then we'll pop yours just in this bag here.
- Thank you. - What are they for? What are you gonna do?
They'll be used as evidence, Mr. Miller.
- You okay? You all right? - Yeah.
Yeah? You sure? Okay, good lad.
Are we finished in here?
Can I get a room to speak to my client, please?
- Yeah, sure. Next door. Follow me. - Thank you.
- Of course. Yeah. No problem.
- There's chairs. - Thank you.
Jamie, want to pop yourself on the other side of that table?
Dad can sit next to you.
Well, that was, uh…
That's the worst part of that over and done with, I'm glad to say.
I thought you handled it extremely well, Jamie.
Um…
What's your favorite subject in school, Jamie?
- Why does that matter? - Uh, just humor me.
- History. - Why?
Uh, I like the stories.
And, um, what's your favorite bit of history?
Um, we're doing the Industrial Revolution.
Oh, are you? All right, okay. Um…
Who do you like who took part in the Industrial Revolution?
Uh, you know… you know Brunel?
Yes. Yes, I do.
- I like him. - Why?
Because he… he did stuff no one else did.
Boats, trains, everything. He just did it.
Yeah, he did.
Smart kid.
Um, I'm not here
to ask you whether or not you did or didn't do it, Jamie.
- I didn't. - He didn't. There's no way he did it.
My job, and your dad's job,
is to protect you whatever happened last night, okay?
And the police, they're trying to find out what happened,
but they're not here to protect you.
They believe you're guilty of something, and that's why we're here, all right?
So all I want you to do is say, "No comment."
All right? That's it. Just, "No comment."
Mm, to everything?
Uh, no, not to everything. That won't go down well.
Uh, just to questions about the events of last night.
All right? Do you think you can decipher between questions you should answer
and questions you shouldn't answer?
Mm, I don't… I dunno.
Is your name Jamie?
Yeah.
And… where were you last night, Jamie?
- No comment. - That's it. That's it.
Whenever you're unsure,
whenever it's 50-50, just say, "No comment."
And if I think you should answer the question, I'll advise you so.
But you're a very bright lad, and I think you'll do absolutely fine.
Um, I'll be in there. Your dad'll be in there.
I won't be afraid to speak upon your behalf.
And your dad can also speak up whenever he chooses.
- All right? - Can I?
Oh, yeah. Of course you can, yeah. Yeah.
I… I… I haven't done anything wrong.
Well, that makes it easy then, doesn't it?
Right, I'm gonna… I'll be back in a second. Um…
I'm just gonna see how they're getting on, setting up for this interview.
If you could sit tight. Try to be patient for me.
I'll be back for you. All right?
Just wait here a minute, lad. Just give me a sec.
- Excuse me, mate. - Yeah?
Look, I haven't got a clue what I'm doing here.
I don't… What do I say?
Just… um, don't answer for him, all right?
Uh… just… uh, just be yourself.
They know you're his dad. We know you're his dad.
It's… it's okay to process.
It's okay to be shocked, and it's okay to be human.
- All right? - Yeah, I mean, this isn't normal.
- Do you know what I mean? - No.
- I've never even been in a police station. - You'll be fine.
I just don't want to get it wrong for me lad. Do you know what I mean?
You'll be fine.
I'm shitting myself.
- I understand. - He's a… he's a good kid, yeah?
And I'm… I'm a good dad. Do you know what I mean?
He really is. Look, you said yourself. You even said he was bright.
- Yeah, I did. - So… do you understand?
I can see that, but…
Here we are now, and we've this to deal with, okay?
And I think the police have some pretty compelling evidence.
Otherwise, they wouldn't have been able
to ask for blood, to make the entrance that they did.
Now, I don't know what that evidence is,
but I'm pretty sure it's gonna become clear to us very soon. Okay?
So, um, the best thing for you to do is to raise that chin up,
be the good dad,
and, uh, suck it up, okay?
Yeah.
They're shaping up for the interview. I need a minute just to have a look.
Can you sit with him? You all right doing that?
I'll be back for you shortly.
Okay.
- All right. - You'll be fine.
- Okay. - All right.
Ta.
I'll be outside if you need me.
You okay?
Yeah.
Look at me.
I'm gonna ask you once. Okay?
And no matter what's happened, no matter what you have or haven't done,
I want you to tell me the truth.
Did you do it?
No.
Promise?
I promise.
Good. Okay.
Okay, then.
Everything's gonna be all right, then, isn't it? Hey?
Yeah.
- Okay, they're ready. - Yeah, okay. So are we.
- It's okay, Jamie. - Ready?
Come on. Come on. You're all right. Let's go.
Um, you okay?
Just before we go in, Jamie, just to go over what we said again.
If you're unsure, just look to me, remember that "no comment,"
and, um, your dad'll be by your side all the way through it, all right?
Okay? Okay.
- Hiya. Come on through. - Hello again.
Hey, Jamie. We'll have you sit down there.
Your dad can sit next to you.
Paul, you can pull up that seat over there.
Yeah.
To let everyone know, this interview will be recorded, audio and video.
- Is that okay, Jamie? - Yeah.
Okay. I'm gonna start the recording now.
Okay.
First of all, I'm gonna start with reminding you of your rights, Jamie.
I want you to listen carefully.
You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defense
if you do not mention when questioned something you later rely on in court.
Anything you do say may be given in evidence. Okay?
Yeah.
I am D.I. Bascombe. In attendance is D.S. Frank.
We are talking to Jamie Miller, his appropriate adult, Eddie Miller,
and his solicitor, Paul Barlow.
The time is…
…6:58 a.m.
Sit up.
I'm gonna start off with asking you what you did last night, Jamie.
- Last night? - Yeah.
- Jamie. - It wasn't that long ago.
No comment.
Okay. What did you do?
No comment.
That's not really helpful, is it, Jamie?
- Sorry. - Okay. No worries.
Let's move on to something we can talk about.
I've been reading your school reports.
Why?
I got your teachers to send them over.
Mm.
It's looking good. Doing really well. You're a good student.
You wanna take your A-levels?
Um…
You can answer that, Jamie.
I don't know.
Okay. They also talk about some… problems with your behavior more recently.
Last year or so.
- Yeah. - Okay.
Well, what are the problems? What are they?
Uh, I dunno.
- Do you have good friends, Jamie? - Yeah.
Okay. Who are your good friends?
- No comment. - You won't get them into trouble.
You battered my door down this morning, so I'm not sure you can say that.
That's fair.
Okay, look.
I'm going to ask you about… romantic relationships.
- Sexual relationships. - Why?
Well, I noticed on your Instagram that you reposted a picture of this model.
What's her name, Jamie?
I just like her pictures.
- You don't know her name? - No.
Okay. You also posted a picture of this woman.
And this woman.
And below this one, the more recent one,
you can see that there's a series of comments
and innuendos which seem pretty aggressive.
They're from you. How do you feel about women, Jamie?
- What kind of a question is that? - Are you attracted to women?
- Yeah. - Okay.
And are these the type of women you're attracted to?
- Yeah. - Okay.
- Do you have a girlfriend? - No.
If you did, would you want her to look like any of these women?
No, they're…
They're too old.
That's true.
I also see that you, um, posted pics of you and who I think are friends?
Hmm? Where were these pictures taken?
Um…
Train station, I think.
Okay. Who are these boys?
I understand you don't want to get them into trouble. I get it.
But they're not gonna be in trouble, man. It's fine.
I'm just trying to build a picture.
Jamie, it won't be hard for us to find them.
You're a smart lad, aren't you? You can see that.
Go ahead. Tell 'em.
That's Tommy. That's Ryan.
Okay.
- Good friends, yeah? - Yeah.
Hmm. You're in a lot of pics with them.
Only because Tommy tagged me in 'em.
Okay. And is it always you three out together?
- Yeah. I guess so, yeah. - How long have you known them?
Um…
Year one, Tommy, and then Ryan came in year four.
Okay. What do you guys like to do together?
What's fun for you?
I… I dunno.
Sports, films, music, dancing? What?
Just… going into town.
- Hanging out? - Yeah.
Okay. Were you hanging out with them last night?
- No comment. - What time did you get home?
No comment.
Okay. Okay. I get it now. Everyone's trying to do their job here.
If you remember rightly, Jamie,
I was the one that suggested you get a solicitor, wasn't I?
Yeah.
All right. May I ask you what you were wearing last night?
I… I don't remember.
Okay. Our scene of the crime officers
didn't find any of your clothes from last night,
but they think they've managed to find your trainers.
Can you identify these as your trainers?
Well, it's… it's quite hard in a photo.
Do you own a pair of Nike Air Max in white and blue?
- Yeah. - Thank you.
Were you wearing them last night?
I… I dunno. Maybe.
I don't know.
Here.
Jamie, do you know a girl called Katie Leonard? There she is.
- Yeah. - Yeah?
She's not in your reg group, is she?
But you do share some classes. That's right, innit?
- English. - English.
Top set English. Very good.
Maths and French, you're in set two.
That's good, that.
Do you two get on?
- Yeah. - Yeah?
Describe each other as friends, then?
I… I don't… I dunno.
Well, she occasionally comments on your Instagram posts,
so it's probably a sign that you were, like, friends, right?
I… I dunno. Maybe.
And do you think other people would describe you two as friends?
What is… is she who's dead, then?
Why would you ask that? Hmm?
Is she?
Well, yeah. She is.
And we think you know that.
So it's really clever of you to ask the question if that is the case.
- Careful, D.I. Bascombe. - Okay, then.
Tell you what. Describe your friendship to me.
No comment.
Right. You seem prepared to talk about your other friendships, but not this one.
- Can you tell me why? - I think that's pretty clear why.
Yeah, I'm asking Jamie.
We… we knew each other at school, but… not out of school.
Right. And was it a relationship that ever went beyond friendship?
I… I wouldn't even class it as a friendship.
- Were you attracted to her? - No.
Was there anything that could be described as sexual between you?
No, he's 13 years of age. That's a bit strong.
I know. I've gotta ask the question, that's all.
- Can you answer it for me, kid? - No.
Was it her you were going to see last night?
- Did you go and see her? - No.
See, her parents have told us that she left the house at 8:30 p.m.
Was she coming to see you, then?
I… I've just said. We weren't even mates.
- But you did see her? - No, I didn't.
Okay. Her body was found
at Crowthers' car park just past 10:30 p.m.
Paramedics arrived at the scene, were unable to stop the bleeding.
It was confirmed that she was killed less than an hour before.
Which means between 9:30 and 10:30 p.m.
Where were you at that time?
- I… I don't know. - But you were out?
No comment.
Okay. And if I were to ask your dad
what time you were home, what would he say?
I was on a call. I'd been in for ten minutes
when youse kicked me door in.
- And you're not interviewing Mr. Miller. - No.
Were you following her, Jamie? Or… Or were you meeting her there?
- No, neither. - Did you kill her, Jamie?
- No. - You didn't kill her?
No, I didn't.
You… you've got me confused with someone else.
Okay.
Do you know how many times she was stabbed?
- No. - Seven times.
Seven times, all over.
In her chest.
Neck. Thigh. Arm.
A lot of stabbing.
Does that upset you?
Of course it does. Look at him.
She's a young girl.
You do know what CCTV is, don't you, Jamie?
Hang on. Hang on.
Um, so I think that would be a good opportunity for us to take a break,
have a private consultation.
Jay?
- Jay, you all right? - Yeah.
- Yeah? - I think we should.
- I'd insist on that. - I know. I don't think it's a good idea.
'Cause he's told them he's not even a friend.
He doesn't really know her.
And he's got nothing to hide. So go on. So he's gonna tell you.
- Fine. - Yeah.
- Okay. - Okay.
Okay, so, Jamie,
we've been looking through CCTV images of you and Katie from last night, okay?
We've gone through council footage, local businesses.
What we've managed to do is we've put together a timeline of her movements
and your movements, okay?
So this is you, isn't it? In the middle there.
Meadows… Meadows Square, 7:43 p.m.
So that's you.
We can tell it's you. We can see your jumper, your jeans,
the Nike Air Max we just discussed.
And these are your two friends, Tommy, and we think Ryan. We're not too sure.
You were with them for about an hour, and then you left them.
Then you just wandered around for quite a long time, didn't you?
We see you here at the Battered Plaice, 9:02 p.m.
Got you here passing the library, 9:17 p.m.
Got you here at the corner of Shetney, 9:43 p.m.
These are you, right?
- All of 'em, yeah? - Yeah.
Good.
Then, Katie pops up.
See, we don't see when you spotted her, but we do see you following her.
Why were you following her, Jamie?
Dad.
Answer the question, son.
I wasn't—
She's walking past the crossing at 4 Bridge Street at 9:46 p.m.
You can clearly see that here. Everyone can see that, right?
And at 9:47 p.m., same place,
walking in the same direction, is you, Jamie.
So you were following her. I'll ask you again.
- Why were you following her? - I wasn't.
- Did she know you were following? - I wasn't.
Is there some sort of problem between you two?
- No. - Jamie!
Mate…
It's not just gonna go away.
You sure you don't wanna tell us what happened?
You're gonna have to say it sooner or later.
I haven't done anything wrong.
Okay.
I'm now going to play you some footage.
This is of you and Katie from the car park last night
where a confrontation happened, okay?
Ja…
Jay.
I think that's enough, okay?
That's where we are.
How did you get home without anyone seeing you, Jamie?
Hmm?
You threw away your clothes.
We didn't see when it happened, but we know it happened.
You kept your trainers.
Too expensive, am I right?
There will be blood on those trainers, Jamie.
And with this tape as evidence,
it's not looking good.
Do you want to give us a reason why?
Hmm?
Why would you do something like this?
Jamie, do you want to explain?
Do you want to say sorry to Katie's mum?
Who I had to talk to just past midnight last night,
while she was sobbing on the floor because her daughter is gone.
Do you wanna say sorry to her?
I'm terminating this interview at 7:12 a.m. Let's go.
I'll give you two a minute.
Dad?
What have you done?
Why?
Dad, it wasn't me.
I've not done anything.